I don't know if this is the right place to put this. I'm not even sure I want to discuss this terrible, terrible situation. But I see it's been discussed at the old joint—and at the typically incisive level, where some correctly lay blame at the feet of a certain New Jersey troubadour—so thought maybe we should have a place where those who wish to chime in can.
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That's the issue, actions have long term consequences.
That's visible in the UK in the price we're currently paying for the vandalism of the Thatcher government.
Similarly, the West's intervention in a myriad of nations.....yea unto the British Empire, is the cause of many global issues today.
If you pardon the pun..that video is right on the money..and why things will never change until Omerica changes.
As a fairly uninformed non US citizen and, as you say, allowing for the fact that President Biden acted on the advice he got, I agree it seems like a huge US military intelligence failure.
But from the cheap seats, this is not a partisan issue. George W Bush went hunting for someone who wasn't even there before turning the whole thing into a nation building exercise. Obama promised to get the troops out and ended up sending more. Trump appears to have signed a deal that amounted to the Taliban saying 'we pinky promise to behave'. Biden proceeded on that basis to finally withdraw... whether on bad advice or not, he has to wear being left holding the tainted parcel once the music stopped.
Of course, Australia as a long term ally of the US diligently followed you in there and are also left with armed forces ravaged by that twenty year commitment and we now have the news reports of our government desperately acting to get Australians flown out just like yourselves.
This has been a pattern since at least Vietnam, where Australia lost more troops than any other country other than the US. I know it's because of our relative geographic proximity to places like North Korea and especially China... I just hope that if our comparatively minnow nation was ever threatened militarily, that the US will come to help us the way we have backed them.
I don't blame Biden at all on what has happened over there. The Generals and Intelligence community is at fault, all need to be fired all ready. Unless Biden didn't follow their advise and the generals are now falling on the sword for him. Don't know and either way is a disaster!
We (STL) are expecting up to 1000 refugees over the next couple weeks, I welcome all of them. Hopefully they can get their lives back together and be a great asset to our community, as the Bosnian refugees did back in the 90's.
Did they not used to call Afghanistan the "Graveyard of Empires"? (Or words to that effect.)
We never learn do we? We (the west) have been interfering in other countries for time immemorial- building 'empires', exporting missionaries to 'convert the savages to Christianity', trying to impose western style democracies etc etc. It never works, we leave behind a legacy of hatred which comes back to haunt us.
I don't really know enough about the history of Afghanistan but 20 years of our presence has cost lives and left the country in no better state than it was, at least as far as I can see.
I have a sad story about a Bosnian refuge fleeing from the region in the 90s to share. I'm too tired to write now, and don't exactly know where to post it..
Can I start the therapy thread, it's been almost a year now? I think we desperately need the therapy thread...
🙄
@Tom Joad I agree with a lot of what you have said...
Even if we omit the discussion of whether the coming to Afghanistan was justified or not, I can't get rid of the impression that the way the US troops left was a total clusterfuck. The worst scenario.
The people there must feel so abandoned, disappointed, and terrified. It's just another US 'we don't give a fuck about anybody else, time to go' action.
But the history is repeating, Russia and China are already standing in line to interfere... Nothing ever changes. Not really.
I’m sick and tired of the news reporting what’s happening in the world through the POV of the USA. What has happened now is the result of decades of US interference. Not to defend the locals, but to defend their own interests. I remember when many people (Bruce included) thought invading a country was a good response to 9/11. I remember a lot of people saying that just never solves things and actually had a tendency of making them worse. I also remember being asked many time if I’d rather the world (aka the US) didn’t do anything.
Oh, and I also don’t forget that all this outrage in regards to Afghanistan now is 1/100th of the outrage towards the barbaric practices of neighbouring countries who just happen to be considered allies.
I don’t know what Biden could have done differently, but I certainly blame every US President since at least W. I mean, you interfere with a country for decades and then suddenly just decide to say “ok, enough is enough! You take over now!”. It’s like the world is the US’s fucking sandbox.
Personally I think we (as in the West) should accept anyone who is able to get out, especially women and girls.
But it's immigrants that cause all the economic problems, didn't you know that?
Nothing to do with a market based socio-economic model, it's the damned immigrants.
And they're usually rapists......(continued on "GB News" and other such media outlets )
I watched the evening news.... Felt like throwing up...
The EU is willing to accept 500 Afghan people who worked there for various EU organizations...
Proportionally, Slovenia is going to take 5 people. The equivalent of my family. What a fucking disgrace...
The official statement, read between the lines, says that the EU will do everything, and pay a lot, to prevent refugees to cross our borders.
And those poor people are still going to try, and so many will die on the way..
Across the border... Fuck.
I better go to bed now.
Also, I don't think Biden deserves any of the shit he's getting, he fucked up like we all do and miscalculated on the unfolding so quickly, but if anything shows to my mind, he was right to get the fuck out. Which is why I liked his strong speech about standing "squarely by his decision." He's too old for this shit.
Saw the post about the blame for Bruce, of course it's from the main poster who can't write anything just to slag him, it's actually quite disgusting. It's one thing to not be a rabid fan like days of past but to be on a site just to slag him is very tired. He almost sounds angry, though a few of them do on there. Says a bit more about them frankly.
Indeed. A triumph for the US military-industrial complex, loyally supported by Airstrip 1.
And big-hearted Priti is mobilisin’ Border Force to repel all boarders, or at least make the process so protracted that the Taliban can complete their programme of home welfare visits.
Boils my piss.
It is all down to Bush and even more so to the evil Dick Cheney who lined the coffers of Halliburton with the proceeds and left the company with an estimated personal fortune of $86m, he and his wife had joint earnings of $8.8m in 2006 a truly evil man.
Well, I'm reassured.
Don’t worry folks, it’s all going to be OK. 🙄
Big hearted my f-ing arse. So ashamed of ‘global Britain’.